I will not be assuming the PNF director role

I have yet to be legally appointed as a PNF director and have decided not to assume the role formally. In this post, I’ll explain why and try to answer any questions you might have.

Why are you not assuming the director role?

The short answer is that I’m not the best person for the job. When Mike asked if I’d be willing to be a director, we expected that it would be in a limited capacity, requiring a modest time commitment. I accepted the role without compensation or incentives because I expected it to involve a modest time commitment. However, after 4-weeks, it’s clear now that this role requires a full-time commitment, and due to other obligations, that is not something I can provide.

Can’t you limit the time you spend?

No, not responsibly. Before PIP-38 passed, I had no visibility into how PNF was run on a day-to-day basis nor the extent of its challenges. I now understand the issues the organization faced in the past and the challenges that must be addressed going forward. With this clearer understanding, I am not comfortable, nor would it be responsible of me, to limit the time required to properly consider the decisions that must be made in the coming months.

Are you walking away from the project?

No. I’m still as optimistic about the project as I’ve always been, more so in some ways. We are very close to seeing Shannon launch, and that is a big step forward. Yes, significant challenges need to be addressed, but it’s a big and complex vision, so significant challenges are to be expected.

Will you play any role in the PNF decision-making process?

I’ll always try to be available to help if I can—just not as a director. I’ve always shared my opinions openly, and I will continue to do so—but as a community member with the same interests and motivations that I’ve always had.

Was PIP-38 passing a good thing?

Ultimately, time will tell for sure. But I now think it was the right thing and the only real option. The previous PNF leadership resigned on 2 JUL 2024, more than 2-weeks before the PIP-38 proposal was published on 19 JUL 2024. During that time, there were no new proposals. So, from my perspective, there wasn’t another option. The previous leadership claimed they saw no choice and needed to step down to avoid a fork. For the record, I had no prior knowledge about what became PIP-38, nor any discussions about forking POKT before Ben posted the resignation letter for himself and Dermot. But regardless, when they stepped down, there was only one proposed path forward - PIP-38. However, now that I’ve had an opportunity to see how PNF was run previously, I’m further convinced that voting for PIP-38 was a good decision.

Why is it taking so long for PNF to make decisions?

Since taking over PNF operations the day after PIP-38 passed, we have struggled to make decisions primarily because of the organization’s prior mismanagement. The most challenging example is that the accounting system (Quickbooks) had just one month of incomplete data when we arrived. So it was, and to a lesser extent still is, all but impossible to get the financial insights you’d expect to have for an organization like PNF. Things like vendor lists, accounts payable reports (e.g., outstanding invoices), cash flow reports, reconciled account balances, or almost anything else any basic accounting system should provide are unavailable.

Some spreadsheets exist with financial reporting data, but there is no way to see the details behind any of the values they contain. As a result, PNF is still trying to reconcile transactions to get a clear picture of where the organization stands financially. As I write this, many months of transactions still have not been accounted for and reconciled. I’m not an accountant. But I’ve run several organizations over the years. I know what Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) are and why trying to run an organization without reliable and timely financial data is reckless. The lack of attention to the financials is just one example that convinces me PNF would not have been better off if PIP-38 hadn’t passed or the prior leadership hadn’t resigned. There are multiple others.

Is Michael O’Rourke the right person to lead PNF?

I believe he is. I’ve known Mike for a long time, but the past 4-weeks were the first time I’ve ever worked with him directly. His leadership style and mine are very different, and we don’t agree on everything. But, objectively, I cannot know if my opinions are better than his. I am convinced that he is highly motivated to make this work. It’s not just a project and potential payday for him - it’s a personal mission. So, in my opinion, if there is anyone who is going to do whatever it takes to make things work - I believe it’s Mike.

Wen moon?

It depends on the planet you’re from and the moon you’re referring to (e.g., the price you paid and your expectations). If you’re from Earth (you are dollar cost averaging and not waiting for a new ATH), the moon can be up to 406,700 kilometers (252,700 miles) away. If you’re from Saturn (purchased at a high, are not still buying, and are holding out for a 10x return), the farthest moon is 12.9 million kilometers (8 million miles) away.

In closing

There is a lot of work to do. The vision is big and complex, so it’s a safe bet that there will be more problems to solve. But Mike has taken responsibility for steering the ship. So, no more finger-pointing is necessary, and we can focus entirely on navigating the challenges at hand. If we can acknowledge and overcome big challenges, we’ll also be better able to create value in a big way. It’s messy, complicated, and risky. So, it’s not for everyone. But I’ll be sticking around and will continue trying to help if I can.

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Hi @steve

While it’s unfortunate for everyone who voted for you that you couldn’t deliver as much impact as you thought you could in your time as a director, your attempt to blame PNF’s financial systems for your failings is 1) a flagrant lie and 2) a reflection on your and Mike’s general inability to plan or collaborate.

First, PNF’s financial systems are a vast improvement from the system that @o_rourke ran in 2022 when they spent over $20m (in POKT and stables) in less than a year without any transparency or oversight.

When we joined in January 2023, there were no monthly management accounts or any form of forecasting system. So we onboarded with https://www.cryptedge.net/ to implement better forecasting and tracking to provide monthly management accounts to the board and quarterly accounts to the community.

We onboarded https://olambit.com/ as PNF’s new accountants in June 2024 (to help with some accounting automations). In July we finalised the June accounts with Olambit, handed over to Shane and released the Q2 accounts and transparency report.

Accounting records were kept for each month the foundation was in place, with a transaction ledger feeding into chart of accounts, journal, trial balance, income statement and balance sheet.

How would the quarterly transparency reports be created if not for monthly accounting? PNF was spending less than $2m per year so none of this is rocket science.

By the end of July, we were fully out, cut off from everything, and had zero meetings or discussions direct with Mike, Steve, Jinx or any of the other current PNF leadership team.

Having advised on 10s of billions of dollars of M&A, PE and VC transactions in my career to date, I have never experienced any situation where a new management team has never asked the previous management team questions about the finances.

All of the accounting information is with the current PNF leadership team, Cryptedge (for everything up until end of May 2024) and Olambit (for the full period), and the live balances (in POKT and the PNF SAFE on Ethereum) have been available for all with an internet connection 24/7.

If you really cared about solving a perceived problem, as opposed to creating an excuse for your lack of impact, why didn’t you reach out to ask?

I’m also not clear how a delay in reconciling some past transactions into your new system delayed you or Mike in delivering on the vision in your PIP-38 proposal?

Whatever the reason, the implication that historical records weren’t kept or were somehow a mess is completely false.

I hope that @o_rourke has a better plan than whatever this poor attempt to distract away from what’s actually happening now at PNF is.

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The big news I’m picking up here is old PNF mostly used organized spreadsheets in their past accounting, which included chart of accounts, journal, trail balance, balance sheet, etc, and recently shifted to using Quickbooks in June. New PNF has since been heavily focused on getting all past transactions into Quickbooks so they can produce highly specific and custom reports within the Quickbook suite.

The argument is that by PNF focusing it’s first month on transitioning past transactions into Quickbooks they will be in a place to make more professional processes and better decision making.

I however have my doubts that all this effort to put every past transaction into Quickbooks will neither improve efficiency nor provide better decision making.

Personal Example

I submitted an invoice for my August paycheck two weeks ago. In the past, within a few days, and with only a few clicks the PNF directors would have it paid with the logs automatically being placed into Quickbooks. This was a delightful system to work with and PNF was reliable.

However, new PNF is adopting entirely new processes. After submitting an invoice and hearing nothing back, I was told to resubmit my invoice, but this time not via the automated system, but instead via basic email. So I sent it to the director’s email. As of today, it has been 2 weeks since all of this and I’m still without my monthly income. At this point I’ve communicated via email, DMs, Telegram groups, added folks to Telegram groups, tagged folks I was told to tag, and yet I still wait. Last I heard, they are looking for my invoice :man_facepalming: It has been an absolutely ridiculous experience.

While I’ve waited now for two weeks, I’ve learned from the Den that this new “process” has apparently prioritized sending Grove $75k worth of POKT (which Grove gets to categorize as revenue to their investors) and sending POKTScan $20k. I have no idea what processes Grove and POKTScan are a part of where they get their payments without delay, but for someone like me, I’m being treated with no priority or respect for my family.

The new PNF was absolutely given complete authority in PIP-38 to use the PNF treasury and the DAO treasury however @o_rourke sees fit, so I’m not about taking beef with where they are sending it. What I take issue with, is the narrative that all these “new processes” are about creating better a more professional PNF or enable better decision making.

Where is the efficiency of manually pinging PNF every few days for my monthly income across numerous platforms for a single invoice? How is the decision making improving by prioritizing Grove, POKTScan, and a few others, while I stay in the dark? I don’t understand why some are being prioritized and others are not, or how this is an improvement over the past.

If the purpose of new PNF is to improve PNF’s financials and financial processes, then I personally have not experienced it.

Personal Thoughts

I understand that PNF is under a lot of pressure. $500k of incoming investments were lost when all this started, and the $500k of incoming investments that @o_rourke said would come in if PIP-38 passed was lost as well. I understand things are challenging, but I don’t agree that current PNF’s issues are from the fact that past PNF used spreadsheets.

I guess Quickbooks vs spreadsheets is the new tabs vs spaces… :man_facepalming:

If PNF believes that focusing on Quickbooks over spreadsheets will change POKT’s trajectory, then I wish them Godspeed… but I would ask they don’t tout their changes as “improvements” while it’s only been to the benefit of a few. I don’t desire to be in these games or conversations, but my experience has been ridiculous.

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BREAKING: I got paid this morning :+1:

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Please see here for a link to a folder containing the following for PNF:

  • Monthly management accounts from Jan 2023 to May 2024

  • Quarterly accounts from Q1 2023 to Q2 2024

  • EOY Accounts for 2022 and 2023

Please also note:

  • we commissioned the 2022 accounts, but Mike ran PNF from 2020-2022. PNF didn’t seem to keep any formal kind of accounts beyond simple transaction ledgers for any of this period, and the 2022 accounts were the first time any transparency was provided to the community about PNF’s spending.

  • the new PNF also has access to the underlying transaction ledgers for all of the monthly, quarterly and EOY accounts, which I see no reason why they cannot share if people want to see them too.

  • the accounts for June 2024 were prepared using a new system, so the new PNF will have to share them. Given that the reconciliation period for the July 2024 accounts (i.e., the start of August) fell after we left, the new PNF will have to provide them, too.

  • All of the DAO Era Cycle reports, including the release notes, general ledger and expenses are available on the forum. Cycle 1, Cycle 2,, Cycle 3, Cycle 4,

Lastly, the new PNF is required under PNF’s articles to release the following quarterly transparency report for Q3 2024 and the accompanying accounts before the end of October.

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And as per Mike from Cryptedge in the Den:

@dabblelab very simply at EOM two things happened:

  1. The treasury balances were manually pulled from PoktScan into the treasury asset sum tabs. A USD value was manually assessed using the FMV at the last day of the month.
  2. Journal entries throughout the month were recorded and thus net income (loss) was established. Using Net income (loss) we adjust the equity section on the balance sheet. The remaining difference is a matter of market value change. FASB ASU 2023-08 calls for a fair market value adjustment recording as a line item in the statements, which in fact we did before the ASU ever came out.
    See here: https://www.fasb.org/page/PageContent?pageId=/projects/recentlycompleted/accounting-for-and-disclosure-of-crypto-assets.html
  3. This completes the reconciliation from book data to on chain data (treasury balances).
    A couple of notes:
  • I never recommended QBO because it is too much work to constantly update with crypto prices in that system. Its not designed for it and would cost the client too many hours. Its already a complex accounting but QBO adds a layer of non-functionality. Crypto companies I work with will only use QBO if they have a good crypto accounting software (bitwave, integral, tres, cryptio, etc) to integrate. Pokt isnt pulled into any of these, thus sheets was simplest for cost and time-savings measures.
  • This is a preparation engagement, meaning there are no assurances of anything. Furthermore it is an Agreed Upon Procedures engagement. Other than the fact that we follow GAAP (although even that is not mandatory), the engagement is done to client satisfaction. If the goal was to reconcile balances, have accurate treasury data at month end, and have good data for transparency reports, then it worked. If the goal was vendor reports, AP reports, and other things quickbooks provides, we failed, but that was never the scope of the work.
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@Dermot Who decided to get Quickbooks set up and why? Was that decision made perhaps because someone felt a more robust financial system was needed?

The quote above tells me that Mike from Cryptedge was not providing any financial oversight—he was just doing what he was asked to do. Given the financial complexity involved in PNFs’ operations, audited financials and a system that provides more robust reporting are necessary and should have been implemented - in my opinion.

You clearly disagree. I find that troubling. What is the argument against having audited financials for oversite or having an accounting system that provides access to essential reporting?

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Do you understand what an audit entails? And how much they cost? Regulated institutions have them annually, with them being typically due 6 months after the end of the previous accounting period. How frequently should PNF have had them?

What additional reports were missing that couldn’t have easily been obtained from the accounts?

We received quotes from other accounting firms that would have charged $10-15k per month extra for additional reporting and a nicer UI (crazy crypto rip off prices like these are sadly too commonplace as most foundations seem to care a lot less about how much they spend) but since PNF’s operations are actually fairly simple, and the treasury was relatively small, we focused on ensuring we had the most important information and reporting. And we were happy to access this information via sheets instead of a UI to save additional man hours and costs. You will see that the qualified accountant confirmed that this was all in line with GAAP.

Can you explain to everyone here what you are trying to prove would have been different?

And can you also explain why - if you cared about understanding PNF’s finances - you never spoke to the past accountants or the previous management team?

And can you also explain why you believe it was fine that Mike ran PNF - at a time when they spent over $20m in one year - without any reporting or accounts whatsoever?

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I’m not trying to prove anything. I’m communicating an opinion that the financial operations were mismanaged, which seems to be an opinion you also hold based on the following statement.

If you came into PNF as a director and had questions like the one you posed above - shouldn’t you have done what I’m doing now?

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We introduced monthly, quarterly and annual accounts and reporting…

These weren’t available before.

You suggested that an audit is necessary without understanding that an audit is annual and is typically only due 6 months after the accounting period end.

This has already been satisfied by all of the above, particularly from Mike (Cryptedge).

Time to admit you were wrong and focus on how to make POKT better?

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For the record, from what I observed, you haven’t been trying to audit the years 2020 through 2022. Suggesting that you are trying to do a full audit is not accurate. I heard nothing about trying to audit what PNI did with PNF’s treasury from before Dermot’s time.

If you and Mike are trying to audit what happened between 2020 to 2022, then that would be new information for everyone. From what I saw all the focus was on the past PNF team and there was a bias to try and find “mismanagement” since everything wasn’t in Quickbooks, which is your preferred tool.

I did provide insight where I could when asked, but I was not involved in all this auditing work and conversations behind the scenes. I wasn’t even fully aware until a few days before I resigned, as it was happening in chats I was not invited into.

When I was given info, it was because they were convinced there was $100k+ of transactions from the last few months that went “unaccounted for”, and they were concerned that foul play may be involved :man_facepalming: It turns out they didn’t know how to use Request.Finance, and I manually fetched them entries and gave it to them in Telegram.

It is frustrating to me is that “auditing” came from a place of “assume the worst”. Instead of asking for help, it was assumed there was mismanagement, unless I was able to step in to clear the mistakes. There are likely still blind spots with your assumptions around the finances, but all this has gotten way too political and divisive, and I only speak now because I was the only party that was involved with both old PNF and new PNF.

Steve, this shows that you are not objectively able to see any of PNF’s past accomplishments and only desire to paint a disparaging picture of the work and character of others.

I strongly believe that if new PNF’s goal is too try and justify PIP-38 by throwing shade on the characters of the previous PNF team, those games are NOT for the betterment of POKT. PNF Directors should be focused on what is best for stakeholders, but I truly don’t see how this drama benefits anyone.

From what I’ve observed, in the short term PNF needs to focus on building credibility (and Quickbooks doesn’t do that), finding new investors, and do everything it can to make Multi-chain successful. If using Quickbooks aids you doing these things, then great, but looking for angles to publicly attack others is pointless IMO and does not benefit stakeholders.

Make this forum boring again :pray: Peace :v:

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